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Post by mrgrimsdale on Oct 19, 2008 21:25:24 GMT
My theory is that horns are nearly always just on the top sash of large-pane lights with just one or two panes; because they are heavier (thicker glass) and the horn strengthens the weight bearing joint. On the bottom sash there is no weight at the meeting rail.
On earlier lightweight multi-pane sashes the gazing bars are structural i.e. the vertical ones go through and join the meeting rails and top or bottom rail, so horns are less needed. You get them occasionally but often just fairly delicate designs.
cheers
Jacob
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Post by jfc on Oct 19, 2008 21:30:49 GMT
Sounds good to me , with the horns you can do a wedged M&T .
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Post by agbagb on Oct 20, 2008 12:11:33 GMT
Nice one Jason, thanks for build details.
One thing I've noticed is the outside linings and parting beads meet the cill. A detail I've picked up on, is to cut these away so water won't sit behind them. An alternative that would be to glue in little wedge behind the lining.
Cheers,
Andy
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Post by jfc on Oct 21, 2008 21:54:32 GMT
Hmmm , your cill should be chamfered where the parting bead meets it so very little water will sit there , although this is the first place trad joinery tends to rot so you do have a point . I will let the customer know that in 70 years this may be cause for concern ;D The small wedge idea is a bad one i think as small details / mouldings on external joinery are always where rot starts . I agree with what you are saying but if i left a gap under the parting bead i am 100% sure i would get pulled on it as a bad job  |
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Post by trousers on Oct 21, 2008 23:08:51 GMT
Really interesting thread - and thanks Jason for starting it and for the pics. Obviously there are regional variations in looks and design of sash windows, but also importance of the property? Mine have got the horn  on the bottom and the top sashes which are approx 4' x 3' each (dont even mention heat loss) and the glass is only 3mm thick. I just love it when I get the cold call from the DG people saying they are in my area and doing a special offer . Its in a conservation area etc but have they bothered to find that out? Have they f... Mine are 110 years old and the wood (very close growth rings and red/brown in colour so poss douglas fir?) is as good as the day they were put in. I am putting in some draughtstripping as I do each one up (sorry Mr G). Also I have used the Dulux exterior primer/ucoat/gloss system and all I can say is the ones I did 10 years ago are still in great nick (the gloss has faded but the paint is still on) but nevertheless due a going over. |
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Post by jfc on Oct 27, 2008 23:22:21 GMT
I fitted these today and i think they are as close to a traditional sash window as you can get with modern regs included .   |
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Post by Keith on Oct 28, 2008 8:10:19 GMT
This has been a really interesting thread and the finished article looks great. The proportions are perfect. Now all they have to do is make the rest of the house as good as the window!!
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Post by paulchapman on Oct 28, 2008 9:32:57 GMT
Great job and great thread, Jason. Cheers  Paul |
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Telos
Full Member
Posts: 123
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Post by Telos on Oct 28, 2008 10:06:04 GMT
I can only second (third or fourth) those thoughts.
An excellent job, well done - brilliant photos from start to finish.
Only comment I would make is have you ever considered supplying your work ready-primed, so it doesn't get ruined by not being treated immediately? Would be rather tragic if some muppet painted it - or it doesn't get primed for a month....
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Post by jake on Oct 28, 2008 11:04:55 GMT
Would be rather tragic if some muppet painted it - or it doesn't get primed for a month.... I can see both those tragedies just around the corner. |
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Post by tusses on Oct 28, 2008 17:01:40 GMT
Looking Good J  |
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Post by modernist on Oct 28, 2008 17:40:16 GMT
Excellent job - and thread - maybe reach for the Holkham paint?
cheers
Brian
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Post by jake on Oct 28, 2008 18:02:16 GMT
The customer might freeze his ar*e off with the sashes out waiting for that to dry, though.
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Post by jfc on Oct 28, 2008 18:16:04 GMT
I have tried priming work but it bumps the price up and means i cant get on with anything as the wet paint gets covered in saw dust . Plus i hate painting . Spraying is an option but i only spray water based paints as i think the smell of spirit based paints may annoy the neigbours . I primed the backs on this one as i was fitting it . I find people are normally happy to cut the cost by painting it themselves .
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Post by jonnyd on Oct 28, 2008 18:50:47 GMT
Looks good and its been good to see it from start to finish. My only very slight criticism is that the hardwood cill looks a little on the thin side. How many hours has it taken?
jon
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Post by jfc on Oct 28, 2008 19:31:11 GMT
A bit thin  Maybe because a trad sash is alot thinner so the fall on the chamfer leaves more material . I cant see making it any thicker would have any benifit . As for how long , i dunno , when did the thread start . |
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Post by jonnyd on Oct 28, 2008 22:41:54 GMT
I am used to seeing cills made from ex 3inch stock which gives a thicker section size. It is probably just an aesthetic thing and as you say probably has no real benefit.
jon
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Post by mrgrimsdale on Oct 29, 2008 17:55:34 GMT
Windows look good Jason.
sills: They seem to be all ex 6x3" as a rule, but thicker timber tends to rot sooner - it all gets wet but thick stuff takes longer to dry, and when the paint gets really bad it doesn't dry at all.
The best sills I saw were in Ireland, done from 3x3" with the whole of the front part being left off completely, leaving just the bit under the bottom sash. It was also set back by 1/4" so the bottom sash would drain off direct to the stone sill without hitting any wood at all. This also meant that the bottom of the boxes also were open to the masonry, so water could drain out from there too. They hadn't been painted in living memory (which is a long time in Ireland!) probably since before the war, and if I had had a workshop nearby I could have repaired them as they weren't so bad, but at a distance had to make copies instead.
I've never seen any others done like this. For all I know they are common elsewhere, or in Ireland. Dunno.
I'll see if I can find a snap.
cheers
Jacob
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on the bottom and the top sashes which are approx 4' x 3' each (dont even mention heat loss) and the glass is only 3mm thick. I just love it when I get the cold call from the DG people saying they are in my area and doing a special offer 
Maybe because a trad sash is alot thinner so the fall on the chamfer leaves more material . I cant see making it any thicker would have any benifit . As for how long , i dunno , when did the thread start .