Help Bargeboard

[spud]

Hello, I need some advice if possible on the moulding of an ornate Dormer Bargeboard.
It looks like this:




I have made the bargeboards, but I cannot figue out how they managed to put that chamfer (about 35 deg, and 1" wide. Also with a small step at the start) around the edge of the timber. Did they use some sort of hand held scraper, and then finished the internal corners by hand?

I cannot find a router bit that will do it.

Thought I would ask in case anyone knew...Thank you.

[engineerone]

sorry first step must be to post the actual image i'm afraid

is it like a railway station bargeboard? in which case most were i think made of individual pieces, not one continuous item.

how about a router cutter for the straight bits, and indeed also for the tops.?

paul

[paulchapman]

Can't see the picture, but stopped chamfers were usually done with a spokeshave. There's a bit of a knack in doing the stopped bit nicely, so it pays to do a few practice pieces.

Cheers

Paul

[spud]

sorry first step must be to post the actual image i'm afraid

Can you not see that picture, or are you talking of something else? I can see the picture clearly, can anyone else?

Is it like a railway station bargeboard? in which case most were i think made of individual pieces, not one continuous item.

These are a common bargeboard around these parts (Scotland) There are various designs, (some far more ornate than this) they are on many types of buildings, including a great deal of dwellings. No they are taken from a single piece of stock, and then worked.

How about a router cutter for the straight bits, and indeed also for the tops.?

As I mentioned, I cannot find a router bit that is suitable. Some of the larger panel raising peices might be suitable, but I would have to use a router table, and have the workpiece upside down, so I would be working blind.

The top moulding is planted on, to give the board depth.

[jfc]

I cant see the picture either .


O now i can ;D

[spud]

Can anyone see this now?

[jfc]

Yup can see it now . My first thought was a raised panel cutter . I have one that is bearing guided but you would have to take it slow if doing it by hand . Ive only ever used it in a router table but i suppose if you just plunge it a bit at a time it would be ok free hand .

[cnc paul]

Hi Spud,

I have a 30 deg. router cutter but it can only be used in a CNC machine. The facia would be quit easy to do on a CNC including the stop chamfer and mitred internal corners.


Paul

[mrgrimsdale]

I'd mark the lines with a gauge, cut the internal corners with a saw then work around with a combination of block or other small planes, wide chisels, draw knives, spokeshaves, rasps and sanding blocks. Whatever you can lay your hands on!
Working down hill on the grain of course.

cheers
Jacob

[engineerone]

obviously now i see the photo i can understand your problem.

actually i can see this as a spindle moulder tool idea, except for the very top where the transition might be difficult. however moving such a large lump around either a spindle or router table would be tricky.

i wonder whether in fact it might be easier to look at one of the smaller machines, like for instance a trim router, or probably more effectively, a rotozip(now bosch) or a dremel.

if you are only doing one, of course getting a router bit made is quite expensive, but is perhaps the most simple way to go,
i would think weald could make a 30 degree bit with a guide bearing which could be done by hand.

paul

[paulchapman]

Looking at that again, I reckon the best tool would be a rasp. Don't know whether Auriou rasps are generally available yet (Classic Hand Tools sell them www.classichandtools.com/acatalog/Auriou-rasps-rifflers.html ) but they are very good - fast and a good finish. Finish off with a card scraper or abrasive paper. Reckon you'd have it done in no time.

Cheers

Paul

[mrgrimsdale]

Or a surform rasps. Cheap and un-trendy but very effective. Then finish as Paul says.

cheers
Jacob

[jake]

Nov 1, 2008 14:02:56 GMT engineerone said:

i wonder whether in fact it might be easier to look at one of the smaller machines, like for instance a trim router, or probably more effectively, a rotozip(now bosch) or a dremel.

Did I miss the bit where he said it was for a dolls house?

[engineerone]

jake
strangely you seem not to have used either ???which can have bases which are more stable and the tool is safer to use with a
long flat cutter which would not be as difficult to control as a bigger tool might be.

one might have to do it in a couple of passes, but it should be possible for those who are prepared to think outside the box

paul

[mrgrimsdale]

prepared to think outside the box

The chaps who did it in the first place didn't have to think outside a box - they just used the hand tools which were available to them ;D the mad b****rs

cheers
Jacob

[jake]

I love the idea of Paul cutting a 1" chamfer with a dremel ... for years.

[engineerone]

having done it in metal, why not in wood???

actually when made, the pattern would have been made with
something like a plane float i would guess, before the introduction in the wilds of scotland of electricity ;D

paul

[spud]

Right thanks for all your replies. I was hoping there there was someone who was more knowledgeable than I, who was going to just say something like: "Well they would have done it like this, or like that.

A great deal of this stuff, would have been knocked up on site, using handtools. The old boy's were also very ingenious, and made a great deal of tools and gadgets themselves.

I'd mark the lines with a gauge, cut the internal corners with a saw then work around with a combination of block or other small planes, wide chisels, draw knives, spokeshaves, rasps and sanding blocks. Whatever you can lay your hands on!
Working down hill on the grain of course.

Well, this is the method I am going to have to employ, I think.

I was also wondering about buying a spare blade for a stanley No:80 and cutting a profile in it, then using it, very much like a hand reeder, or Preston Ovolo Cutter, and just quietly work my way around, bit by bit.

The hardest part will be organizing some sort of fence, to run around the profile.

I do have a large router (Trend T11), but I have never used a large panel cutter in it, either stationary, or freehand. Wealden have some, but are not exactly right.

I cannot believe there is not a simple method for doing this. Or some hand tool that can be coerced into to doing it.

[sainty]

If it wasn't for the quirk ti would be alot easier. For me the easiest method would be to get some cutters made up for the spindle and the finish the corners by hand. Doing this all by hand would be so labour intensive, I cant imagine how long it would take, sure way back when people did this sort of thing regularly, but to take it on for the first time seems pretty daunting.

This will get you pretty close if you are going to use your router, again you will have to finish by hand but most of the work will be done.

rgds


Stu

[mrgrimsdale]

Nov 2, 2008 8:16:10 GMT spud said:

A great deal of this stuff, would have been knocked up on site, using handtools. The old boy's were also very ingenious, and made a great deal of tools and gadgets themselves.

I'd imagine his would have been done in shop - without gadgets; just ordinary tools

The hardest part will be organizing some sort of fence, to run around the profile.

You don't need a fence you just work to the gauge marks. You may need to make up a gauge with a curved face for the inside bends, but it need only be some bits of scrap and a pin through, nothing fancy

I cannot believe there is not a simple method for doing this. Or some hand tool that can be coerced into to doing it.

It shouldn't be a particularly difficult job - it's only a bevel. not a moulding! Have a go on some scraps first.

cheers
Jacob

[sainty]

Nov 2, 2008 9:31:43 GMT mrgrimsdale said:

It shouldn't be a particularly difficult job - it's only a bevel. not a moulding! Have a go on some scraps first.

cheers
Jacob

Its a bevel, with a quirk at the bottom, which makes it a lot more tricky.

rgds

Stu

[Sgian Dubh]

Nov 2, 2008 8:16:10 GMT spud said:

I was hoping there there was someone who was more knowledgeable than I, who was going to just say something like: "Well they would [probably] have done ...

most of the rough shaping after cutting the curves by hand using a bowsaw, if done on site, with a drawknife which is a very efficient wood waster (as well as being a very accurate and delicate tool in the right hands.) Then it would be refined with chisels, rasps and abrasive paper.

To start, the limits of the bevel are pencilled in on both faces, ie, the wide face and narrow edge, and this is followed up with aggresive use of the drawknife to get it close and, in many parts, right down to the required profile. It is only in the awkward corners and places where there are sharp grain direction reversals where smaller tools wouldd be used to get the profile neat, even, and to form the right shape and sharpness at intersections.

Looking at the shape and profile of the barge boards I guess there are about six or eight places where more more delicate tools than a drawknife are required; that is three or four places per mirrored part.

If I was doing this by hand today, I'd probably use a jigsaw with an aggressive blade to replace the bowsaw, but the rest wouldn't be much different. It can almost certainly be done by machine with a lot of ingenuity and jigging up, but for only a couple of pieces I'd probably eschew this route and methodology and just use a drawknife for most of the shaping of the bevelled edge-- it's probably a fairly soft and relatively easily worked wood, so the drawknife method is pretty efficient for a skilled user. Slainte.

[Sgian Dubh]

Nov 2, 2008 9:36:30 GMT sainty said:

Its a bevel, with a quirk at the bottom, which makes it a lot more tricky.
Stu

Stu, I've looked and looked at the provided image, and for the life of me I can't see any evidence of a quirk on the narrow edge at the limits of the bevel.

I know my eyesight is not what it was and I wear reading glasses nowadays, so perhaps I'm missing something obvious that you see that says 'quirk'.

All I see is edges square to the back and front faces of the boards with a fairly wide bevel worked from the front face to the edge. Slainte.

[mrgrimsdale]

Nov 2, 2008 9:36:30 GMT sainty said:

Nov 2, 2008 9:31:43 GMT mrgrimsdale said:

It shouldn't be a particularly difficult job - it's only a bevel. not a moulding! Have a go on some scraps first.

cheers
Jacob

Its a bevel, with a quirk at the bottom, which makes it a lot more tricky.

rgds

Stu

Ah - now you tell us! Ignore all the above
Can't see what you mean from the photo.
Maybe it'd still be a bevel as per the above and followed with something or other for the fine details.

cheers
Jacob

[sainty]

Nov 1, 2008 12:33:08 GMT spud said:

I have made the bargeboards, but I cannot figue out how they managed to put that chamfer (about 35 deg, and 1" wide. Also with a small step at the start) around the edge of the timber. Did they use some sort of hand held scraper, and then finished the internal corners by hand?


Thought I would ask in case anyone knew...Thank you.

If you look closely you can see it, although its not obvious. It's most obvious on the section above the round bottom part on the right hand side (the same left section also shows it quite well). I think this is why the OP is asking for help, like you say a straight forward bevel would be relatively simple.


rgds

Stu